Overview
The project is being used in Toyota 4S Shop. The equipment is a high & large space dedicated air conditioner (circulating air heating unit).
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Effectively solve the problem of heat supply in the production workshop. The source of heat is the water cycle.
AirTS has developed and produced special energy-saving air conditioning systems for high & large space, covering the source of cold and hot water systems, steam systems, power systems, gas direct combustion systems and refrigerant systems, effectively solving the needs of 4-30 meters high & large space heating, ventilation, refrigeration, humidification, dehumidification, dust removal and other needs.
AirTS High Space Air Conditioning products have been widely used in the mechanical processing, automobile manufacturing, rail transportation, metallurgy and chemical industries, warehousing and logistics, electronic appliances, food and pharmaceuticals, and other industrial sectors, as well as in venues, supermarkets, cinemas, water parks, stadiums, restaurants, and other civilian fields.
Challenges of Heating and Cooling Large Spaces
While both small and large HVAC systems use the same principles, there are many issues that need to be addressed to effectively control the temperature of a large space. Some of these challenges include:
Size and air volume: Large spaces have greater air volume and require more powerful HVAC systems to effectively heat or cool the area.
You will get efficient and thoughtful service from AirTS.
Air Stratification: In large spaces, warm air rises and forms layers. This can cause uneven temperatures in different areas and can make some occupants uncomfortable.
Occupancy Fluctuations: Large commercial spaces have drastic changes in occupancy. This can put a huge strain on HVAC systems trying to maintain a constant temperature.
Various Uses: Many large spaces contain a variety of areas with different heating and cooling needs.
Energy Efficiency: Because a large amount of electricity is required to run an HVAC system for a large space, energy efficiency is a top priority. Wasted energy can quickly lead to increased operating costs.
HVAC solutions for 4S shops often require a combination of ventilation and commercial heating technologies to meet industry requirements while also providing good indoor air quality and comfort for employees. Automotive HVAC systems for 4S shops take a more sophisticated approach to ventilation and heating system design to meet national and corporate standards.
Choosing the Right HVAC Solution for 4S Shops
When you need to exhaust existing indoor air within a garage or automotive facility, our make-up air units are the ideal choice. Designed to "make up" the air in an indoor space, these units are ideal for situations where frequent replacement of indoor air is required. Additionally, make-up air HVAC solutions draw in fresh, conditioned air from outside your transportation building or commercial garage to replace existing air that cannot be recirculated. These solutions are especially beneficial in buildings where environmental conditions require greater ventilation needs to improve the air quality within the building and protect the health of those inside. AirTS designs, manufactures, and installs best-in-class commercial and industrial heating solutions, ventilation systems, and cooling solutions for 4S shops. Our team of experts is dedicated to providing our customers with the highest quality automotive HVAC systems.
Good morning all!
I am wrapping up the build of my 40x64x16' shop, and trying to get ideas for HVAC.
I am all set for 5" open cell foam in the walls, and R-49 blown in cellulose in the ceilings, covered by white sheet metal. I also plan to add a mezzanine on one end, 12' deep, and the entire 40' width of the building. On top will be storage (and a place for my furnace?), as well as half of the lower part being an enclosed bathroom/kitchenette/utility room. I also have 4 high cfm 60" ceiling fans I will be installing to keep air circulated. I have (2) 12x12 CHI commercial insulated doors ( series if I recall), (2) steel insulated walk-in doors, and (8) insulated 4x3 slider windows.
So essentially, a 12x20x8' enclosed room that will contain my water heater, bathroom, plumbing, incoming water line, etc., and will need to maintain temp year round to avoid freezing. The remaining portion of the shop roughly 52x40x16, plus the open storage area will need to be heated and cooled to make it comfortable in the extreme heat and cold.
I did have a friend tell me look into the mini splits for heating and cooling, but I am concerned about it being able to handle the amount of space with the tall ceilings. I originally considered running s standard propane furnace and a/c system, with a single tube down the center of the ceiling, with a few vents along the way to evenly distribute the air, and a single vent into the "finished area" to keep it where it needs to be......possibly with some sort of way to control the amount of flow in the finished area so it doesn't get too hot or cold when the system is feeding the shop.
Should I just worry about the shop for now, and use a small space heater at a low temp in the winter to keep the utilities warm? I've read so many ways to skin this cat, and dont know which is best. I am already outside my budget adding HVAC right now, so need the most cost effective method if possible.
BTW, the BTU calculator said I needed something like 61,000 BTU for cooling and 5.1ton?
Thanks in advance!
Located in central IL.
Are you not insulating the bathroom area because its not finished or it won't be included in the hvac plan for heat/ac? Did you look into closed cell foam?
Sorry, forgot to add that! I will insulate the finished area with batt insulation, osb on the outside with drywall inside.
Regarding the foam, I did consider the closed cell, but the open cell was already pushing my budget pretty far. I figured open cell on the walls would be a great barrier, although not as strong as closed cell, but still probably better than batt insulation and house wrap. But it is rated at R-19, and being on the walls, not so concerned about moisture sitting "on" it, as I know it can absorb moisture. My local insulation contractor said they used open cell on their shop/office as well.
40x60x16 in Texas. 3-4" of open cell foam insulation.
Note, it hit 108 last week and due to Covid, I'm currently working and living in the barn.
We have 2 x 24K BTU ductless units. We can cool the barn into the 70s (perhaps below, I haven't pushed it) when it is 108 outside...
I have 3 x 14'x14' doors with crappy (very little) insulation.
No windows. One 4' door.
Note, ductless units are directional - we work in about 1/3 of the barn (no full walls) where the AC is focused. You'd want to move air around (fans, etc).
I wonder if your calculations are coming back high due to needing heat BTUs? Ductless often lose heat capacity as things hit zero and below.
40x60x16 in Texas. 3-4" of open cell foam insulation.
Note, it hit 108 last week and due to Covid, I'm currently working and living in the barn.
We have 2 x 24K BTU ductless units. We can cool the barn into the 70s (perhaps below, I haven't pushed it) when it is 108 outside...
I have 3 x 14'x14' doors with crappy (very little) insulation.
No windows. One 4' door.
Note, ductless units are directional - we work in about 1/3 of the barn (no full walls) where the AC is focused. You'd want to move air around (fans, etc).
I wonder if your calculations are coming back high due to needing heat BTUs? Ductless often lose heat capacity as things hit zero and below.
Not sure on the calculations. I did speak with a local HVAC guy today, he stated a 5 ton unit would be required for cooling a building that size. He thought the mini splits would be too expensive, likely requiring multiple units, but thats with him selling and installing.
He did offer to sell me a 140K btu propane furnace, 80% efficient, new in box, for $800 cash. Said it would get me by on heat, and then offered an all in one used unit to use for cooling, but its a 3 ton, but for $ I can have a/c, and it does have heat strips in it, but I wouldn't use those (prefer gas heat).
Not sure if I should consider the furnace for now, and add an a coil and condenser later? Or go ahead and buy both for $ and have a decent setup? Or would that a/c unit be so overwhelmed it wouldnt do much?
I Forgot to budget money for the HVAC system up front LOL!
I'm using the minisplits currently. Not great when it's in the low 30's outside. Takes all day to get to 60F. Sometimes I run them in conjunction with the kerosene heater. I'd like to find an electric furnace on the cheap.
I'm only in the shop for a couple hours thru the week and then most of the day on Saturday, so I don't leave things running 24/7. If I did, I think the minisplits would keep up on heat as well. 1% design temp down here is 7F.
I've noticed my slab temp has a lot to do with how much heating/cooling I need. That's a lot of mass to work against.
I knew I was on the line when I sized the units, but I got an extremely good deal on the units.
Our barns sound about the same 40x64x16 with a mezzanine 12x64 bathroom and man cave. I lifted my furnace-boiler-ac off the ground on a platform. Im installing a 5 ton AC unit right now, heat is all waste oil. Furnace is only about 70-80k BTU and keeps the barn nice and warm all winter. The boiler heats the craft room upstairs, bathroom, and i have two 8 foot baseboard units in the man cave area to add some heat. I ran pex from the barn to the house so i could use the boiler to heat the house. Insulation is not done and it burns 400 gallons of waste a year to keep it 55-60'F all winter in north east PA. Any warmer and you sweat while doing anything. Propane in my area is expensive per BTU. You will be cold with 4 tons of HP in that building if it gets much below 30 in your area. I use 2 tons of mini HP in my 3 car garage 800sq ft and it does OK. Mini splits dont work well in dusty locations, no filtering.
nsula_country, that's simple.. Love it.
No matter the price, you will pay for it forever if you settle for an 80% efficient furnace.
There's some wisdom there, the same thing can be said of moderate-SEER ACs, and installing less than climate-zone insulation.
Think about it - I've got a shop. I use it, lets say, on average of 1 day a week. Should I spend $18,000 on R-38+ insulation and 20 SEER HVAC? Or spend $8k on R15 and 17 SEER HVAC? It comes down to how often I'm using it and need to cool (or heat it). My guess is spending the $18k, I wouldn't see that payback in the next 20 years...
nsula_country, that's simple.. Love it.
There's some wisdom there, the same thing can be said of moderate-SEER ACs, and installing less than climate-zone insulation.
Think about it - I've got a shop. I use it, lets say, on average of 1 day a week. Should I spend $18,000 on R-38+ insulation and 20 SEER HVAC? Or spend $8k on R15 and 17 SEER HVAC? It comes down to how often I'm using it and need to cool (or heat it). My guess is spending the $18k, I wouldn't see that payback in the next 20 years...
I have standard 2" insulation with bubble/foil on one side and white scrim on other. 14 SEER 5 Ton Heat Pump. I'm happy.
CT
You are kidding right?
CT
I think he's right in regards to the climate. I bet we're usually within 5-7 degrees of each other. My uncle lives in northern WI., and they have been feeling the heat and humidity we see here in central IL., just not quite as many days of the real hot/humid days.
I still think its gonna take a decent size unit to cool me down......I think a lot depends on what I consider "comfortable". Some want it 80 and take out the humidity......some folks wanna see their breath!! LOL!
I just got the 5-6" open cell foam completed, working on wiring and inside metal finishing......pics to follow!
I re-read your initial post ,and think your shop is well insulated . That said , I'm still like Mini Splits for you . I think of cost to operate . I had a 4 Ton central air unit for my home in Ark. , and NOT using it for 1 season paid for the Mini Split that replaced it . My concern for you is heat . The $800 propane furnace could supplement the Mini Split from Dec. thru Feb. , if needed . The other 9 months , the AC would be cheap , heating demand minimal . Load calc said 61,000 btu. , I think 2 24,000 btu. is sufficent in a building that is so well insulated.
Black Oak,
You thinking the propane furnace isn't going to be up to snuff? Should I reconsider the radiant tube heater option for heat?